NB In May 2018 the Data Protection Act 1998 was repealed and replaced with a new Data Protection Act 2018, which sits alongside the GDPR. We have withdrawn this guidance note until we are able to update it to reflect those changes.
Guidance on parents recording meetings with social workers
Very well written article and one that helped me at least gain recognition in court for the covert recording that i made.
For the reason of accuracy and I did not believe i could make adequate notes during the interview, i covertly recorded a meeting with CAFCASS which became unpleasant and unprofessional on the part of the officer.
Following the meeting i took the complaint through their complaints procedure. CAFCASS guidelines talk about them being open and transparent, however, the ruled very quickly that they could not pursue my complaint as their internal procedure guidelines state clearly that they cannot pursue a complaint where a covert recording is made.
Essentially, they dismissed my very valid complaint on an internal ruling even though they publicise that they are open and transparent.
Lots of very helpful stuff here; but two major points worry me:
(1) You say: ‘Family members do not owe a duty to one another under the Human Rights Act – but agents of / those working for the state (which includes Children’s Social Care
Services and its employees) have to carry out their work with respect for the rights
of privacy, family life and expression.’
I know you mean European Convention 1950, especially Art 8; but I radically disagree. All family members completely owe a duty of confidentiality to each other (see eg Imerman, which was money; but the same principles apply to all family members). Braodly a child of ‘age and understanding’ has the same rights to privacy/confidentiality as any adult; and adults living together are still entitled to privacy, as they are when apart. What is ‘confidentiality’ and privacy, after all (see Lord Goff in ‘Spycatcher’)?
(2) I don’t think you make clear the importance of a mature child’s confidentiality (or eg if the child was recorded without agreement by a parent); and where this conflicts with ‘Working Together, 2015’ (under Children Act 2004 s 11). After all ‘Gillick’ was all about the confidentiality of a child of ‘intelligence and understanding’. Maybe that is outside the scope of your paper; but it may be worth considering?
Thanks David, We’ll give this some thought to see how we could translate this into future drafts in a way that is going to be accessible and practically useful. Happy to hear your suggestions for rewording.
It is a common claim by parents that the reporting is incorrect or states matters that were not mentioned or claiming negativity from a parent. The professionals involved claim to be just that and the question remains that if they are working in an honest and open way with the parent then why would they object as it would also serve them as an accurate account of the interview.
It is amazing in reality that given the number of parents who claim misleading or incorrect reporting to the judiciary they act as if it’s the first time they have ever heard that claim. Common sense would say that so many parents cannot claim dishonesty from the professionals who are social workers from local authorities yet this claim of what constitutes professional misconduct appears a common theme nationwide.
It remains a fact that if local authorities, social workers do not intend to mislead or deceive the service users then why do they object so strongly or when service users disclose they have recordings that suggest misconduct do the local authorities change social workers or move the goal posts in respect of an outcome to the case.
The census from those who have been threw the system is that there deceit and denial towards the given rights of parents and that the reporting in some cases when in favour of the service user is amended on the instruction of a line manager thus the outcomes are in the opinion of the service user already pre determined and more so given that any IRO involvement or additional out sourced work and services lack independence as they are reliant on the work of the local authority thus do as they are told which in effect makes a mockery of the so called right to a fair hearing via a judicial process.
If the system and the professionals involved has nothing to hide or to be ashamed of then the courts should not sit in private and as we know that is a sole decision for the judge who presides over case as the family court has been opened to the public on a number of occasions when bias or corruption has been claimed so there is no reason why the transparency cannot mirror the criminal courts along with accountability by those involved if any evidence shows misconduct during proceedings that have life changing consequences for those involve as it is claimed that none is beyond the legal arm of the law it is just a shame that currently the eyes are blind and the reach of justice controlled or restricted in protecting so called professionals.
Totally agree with you. Why have it all in secret if you have nothing to hide? Anonymised reporting should be allowed. If there is any significant harm surely it should be in a criminal court anyway
This is so interesting and true. Thanks you
Thank you for this report. So helpful for me when I was told I could not record a CIN meeting.
My 11 1/2 yr old son recorded a meeting with social worker [edit] because they were trying to force contact with abusive father- he said they weren’t listening and she kept lying to [my children] she immediately stopped the meeting and told him he wasn’t allowed asked him why – he said so I can play it for the judge coz everyone is lying
She then sat down with me and asked me to explain why his actions were wrong
Why couldn’t he record it if this made him feel more secure ?
[edited]
Hi DF,
We’ve lightly edited your comment for confidentiality / legal reasons.
I don’t object to being recorded, I’ve offered it to one family, and actually would have preferred that they had because it would have been helpful for me as well.
If you record me covertly I won’t like it. I’m human. I’d rather know. That doesn’t mean I have anything to hide. I suspect you would like to know if someone else is doing something by subterfuge, in social work or not.
i think the general theme here is that if a Social worker knows they are being recorded then they will do everything by the book and behave appropriately but if they dont know they are being recorded they might not and may be disrespectful to the parents etc.
you would hope so but we are open recorders and they dont do it by the book at all. it is horiffic to belive what they would do to non recording familys
I totally agree…. Have no objection to recording, just be open and transparent as we are (supposed to be) Lessons to be learnt for all.
It seems to me recirding should not be a matter of choice or adverse comment by social workers. They are as much agents of the state as the police, and we would laugh out loud if the police tried to evade being transparently on the record.
Covert recording would catch out any lies told by social workers etc and how they treat parents. At the same time, it would prove a parent was telling the truth if what they say is drastically altered by such as a social worker to come across as the opposite to make false claims of neglect for example by that parent. What I said at a meeting (Oct 99) about other kids on the estate causing trouble and being approached by a group of angry neighbours at an incident one evening, also the police being called, came out in the report as my kids causing trouble, the neighbours ganging up on me and them calling the police out to my door. Those sws etc who are honest will be honest whether recorded or not. The sad thing is we parents expect them to be honest then feel set up when we find out they are not. By that time, it is too late, and incorrect information contained in reports is not amended. Parents record because they have learned the hard way they cannot trust these people. In an ideal world this should not be the case, but sadly it is, and the fault lies entirely with those who are found out to be lying with the Local Authority backing them up.
Having read this document I felt more relaxed and confident about the assessment I had been asked to undertake. When I explained to the social worker my reasons for recording the meeting, they told me I was not allowed to but one of their colleagues would be present and making notes. I accepted that position. The following session, when I asked for a copy of the notes previously taken, the social worker told me that those notes had been taken for them to complete their report and would not give me a copy. When the report was finally completed I was given no opportunity to check or query it prior to its distribution and it contains over a hundred errors of various sorts. In subsequent meetings, when I have raised concerns about case management, they are either omitted or rephrased to sound less critical in the minutes/summaries. The same social worker throughout seems determined not to be accountable in any way and my experience makes me think all meetings should be recorded as a matter of course to prevent the negative impact of bad practice and poor training.
Hi, Please update this guidance
Hi, we would like to, but we have been waiting for the Family Justice Council to publish their guidance – which they’ve been working on for a number of years but which they now expect to publish by the end of March.
Have you seen the comments by Lady Hale in regard to recordings of social workers, covert or otherwise? She wrote it was acceptable and in some cases had proven some social workers had not been honest in their dealings in some cases.