The issue of recording what is said between parents and social workers in meetings or assessments was raised by parents at #CPConf2015. This sparked a lot of interest, following Louise Tickle’s article for the Guardian on 17th June 2015 – ‘Social workers under scrutiny as parents capture sessions on camera’
There has been a recent and shocking example where a parent was able to record her interaction with a foster carer to prove that she had indeed been verbally abused by the foster carer, who lied about what she had done.
It’s an important issue with potentially profound implications for both those who record and those who are recorded and we are interested in looking in more detail at this issue. It may be interesting to explore further at CPConf#16.
Hopefully the following questions may spark some debate or comment. Please let us know if there are other relevant questions/issues you would like to see explored
- Do those who record such meetings do it covertly? Or is everyone aware?
- What impact is this having on relationships between parents and professionals? Is this changing the dynamic for better or for worse?
- If the recordings provide evidence that needs to be before a court then how practically is this done? For example, who is preparing transcripts of such evidence?
- Are the courts usually willing to accept this kind of evidence?
- What kind of guidance is coming out of reported cases?
- What kind of policies are local authorities or Cafcass generating to deal with this issue?
EDIT 12th August 2015
We made a FOI request to every LA asking for their policy about recording interactions between parents and professionals. The replies have been coming in over the past few weeks and show that the majority of local authorities have no policy and no plans to produce one. Some have good clear policies – and a worrying minority appear to have a policy that is actively unlawful.
We need to crunch the numbers and look more closely at those policies which may be unlawful. Once that is done we hope to publish the results alongside a suggested protocol for recording such interactions, to make things clearer for everyone.
EDIT 17th September 2015
The FOI data is in and has been analysed – see this post. It is clear that most LA’s do not have formal policies and a worrying minority have policies that do not appear to have a lawful foundation. Protocol will follow, to assist those LAs who have not yet devised a formal policy.
We should have done it from day one as we have proved that the minutes of the meetings submitted by the LA are not a true account of what actually happened in the meeting and we proved it in court though the judge was not on our side.
Because you record secretly its not admissible in court and it should be then they would be held accountable
We asked for the meeting to be recorded the LA flately refused and we knew why when the minutes were produced
They say its down to government cuts but they get a bigger grant from central government when they reach their targets for adoption plus they get an individual bonus for getting children adopted
A social worker is on £28,000 basic plus expenses a team leader over £42,000 yhey dont deserve a penny
Hi my is leeanne I would like to ask some support with my child socialworker
Leanne we can’t give advice through this site, sorry. You should try and find a solicitor who does legal aid childcare work, they will be best placed to help. Lucy
There are no individual bonuses in adoption. The government rewards LAs who work well to their guidance, including adoption reforms. More generally, funds are usually allocated when LAs are asked to do something in addition to their current business which the government wants them to do. This may mean employing additional staff or a need for other resources.
Judges are not on anyone’s side. That is the point of them and why you can prove something in court whichever party you are.
I have no problem with being recorded, we should all operate as if we are being listened to, transcribing recordings would though be a right pain. There should be room for sound files being stored.
There is software on the market that will transcribe sound files into text and all it would need is a small office based team to proof read the information, freeing up time for the social workers to manage their huge case loads.
Working for a private fostering agency for 15 years I have found that in social work, apart from the latest mobile phones and cars, social workers still work more or less the way they did in the 1970’s, pre computer age, relying on paperwork and hand written notes in longhand/bullet point form, which means that a verbatim record is impossible to achieve, leading to misinterpretations of who said what and when.
At times during our careers social worker reports have described us as “emotional and obstructive” and “not working with professionals”, when we have merely been assertive and not let the “professionals” (when we are in agreement with the social workers we are seen as fellow “professionals”, when we disagree with social workers we are deemed to be “non-professionals”!) push us around and dictate their agendas to us regarding what’s best for the children. We live with them 24/7 and know them probably better than anyone.
It takes the desire to make changes and in many professions, the professionals do not want to upset the status quo. The police did this and resisted interview recordings with tape and cameras. Now I don’t believe they would be without them, given the choice, as the cameras can often make their case for them.
Concerning recording transactions between social workers and parents, this has got to be something that needs addressing quickly in the Family Courts more. It would protect all parties concerned in the process.
In today’s society it should be used within care proceedings concerning assessments, meetings and all visits as this would enable the imbalance of power held by social workers against parents. It would also protect all social workers concerning any allegations made against them.
There are ways to ensure the recording has not been doctored and it can also be transcribed for court, if felt there was necessary evidence within the recording that could be used to help in the proceedings.
Does anyone know of a great solicitor or barrister who will really fight for parents and look at the evidence with a fine tooth comb? I’m a mother in a care proceeding, all my children have been taken into care and they are extremely traumatised by this… I’m absolutely desperate for a good lawyer. Please help!
Charlie,
All legal aid solicitors can be searched by postcode on the gov.uk website. You can ask them whether they belong to any specialist associations or panels, whether they have any recommendations and how much experience they have of your type of case before deciding who to instruct. Once you have a solicitor on board you can discuss with them which barrister you would like to instruct and they will be able to recommend someone that they have experience of and confidence in. You can also do your own research for a barrister and discuss it with your solicitor, though the barrister they instruct for you will depend on availability on the day of your hearing.
Lucy, Hope you are well.
I am speaking to LAs and related organisations about this issue. If done from the beginning, before obvious animosity, it is better .
Courts have accepted this as evidence in cases I have helped. Parents have transcribed themselves.
Actually I wrote to my LA manager stating why recordings weren’t legislation I would never understand and stated perhaps they should be first to set precedent where this is concerned. Adding the number of complaints would go down suffiently.
I can not think of one good reason why a Social Worker wouldnt want to record interviews etc This could only be a positive for good SW’S as they have proof that no wrong doing was said or done if accused. They can write up notes with acuracy leaving little or no scope for recall in files at a later date etc.
However, there are a hundred reasons and more why an unethical/bad/power ridden etc etc SW would hate to be recorded …. and there stands our reason why all interviews shoukd be recorded.
As for transcribing recordings this would be needed on occasion but don’t think very often. I did have Transcribing company many yrs ago, transcribing police tapes … and it’s extremely time consuming but perhaps due to the cuts in serious complaints perhaps a couple of members of that team could move over to a Transcribing dept (
I am a social worker by trade and now manage a child protection duty team. I have no problem being recorded and tell my social workers to operate with an expectation that they will be, even if they know they are or not. Our practice must be up for scrutiny and if in that scrutiny we are found wanting, then we must answer the difficult questions that follow. I have never understood why a social worker would have a problem being recorded. In my experience it is a party line that we take but few social workers actually have a problem with it. If one of my social workers did, I would be worried that they have something to hide and alarm bells about their attitude and practice would start to ring in my mind
Thanks Steve, That’s an interesting perspective.
All good professionals, teachers, social workers, health etc should not be afraid of being recorded. Poor practitioners will be afraid.
What a shame though that it has come to this.
Steve
Your perspective and attitude are interesting. We recorded the social worker and the Guardian in our home. Their reports to the court, bore no relation to the actual conversation. We asked to have transcripts of the recordings made; this was used against us.
TC
This is really interesting, look forward to seeing the analysed data. The issue of surveillance and recording is coming up increasingly in adult social care as well. In a recent Court of Protection case (St George’s Healthcare NHS Trust v P & Anor [2015] EWCOP 42), the family of a man with severe brain damage challenged professionals who wished to withdraw life sustaining treatment on the basis that he was in a ‘minimally conscious state’. They argued that he was in fact more alert than that, and wanted to video record him to prove it. The hospital refused, on the basis that it would compromise the ‘dignity’ of the patients. The family asked the COP for permission to film the man, and the judge expressed surprise that they were not permitted to do so. The resultant film was said to provide ‘a watershed insight to the proper conclusion in this case’, as it showed that he was not in a minimally conscious state.
Elsewhere, there are debates about whether or not the use of hidden cameras in care services are lawful to detect abuse. Some care providers have adopted bans on their use, and the legality of such bans is dubious. It seems there’s a wider theme around the use of recorded materials being used by families to challenge professionals, and resistance to its use. It raises a lot of complex ethical and legal questions – particularly where there is the possibility that third parties may be caught on the footage – that require careful thought.
Thanks Lucy S. Yes it is a wider theme! I think that it is pointless to ignore the fact that recording is so easy. It is going to happen and it is better surely for practitioners to have a policy in place. It is quite difficult to adjust to the knowledge that what one might think private will become public, but better to be prepared.